If Amenhotep II was the exodus-pharaoh, his firstborn son had to die without the chance to rule, which the historical record should confirm. You cannot, but there is nothing else like it precisely because this book that weve come to call the Bible is itself a miracle. When Moses came to Our appointment and his Lord Allah spoke to him, Moses asked his Lord saying my Lord, allow me to see You, but Allah said you cannot see me; but look at the mountain if it will remain in its stability, then you will be able to see me. 24 At morning watch, however, the LORD looked down on the army of the Egyptians from the pillar of fire and cloud, and He threw their . I welcome private correspondence on these issues. I am sorry, but this website contains about as much ignorance as Answersingenesis. Rob, that was debunked as fake news ages ago. And that is all that can be done. At the predetermined time, the open court of the great temple, with the Pharaoh and his viziers at the forefront, became overcrowded with people, who came to the capital city of Egypt to see the wizards battle. 40 years in that context means a generation. The Bibles author believed that a hidden hand (JHWH-Ex.3,14)guides the events (in history) especially the liberation from an oppression and expressed it in a narrative. (c) Exodus 12:40 gives 430years as period of sojourn. Future akeologists are likely to get digging in old internet files. God proclaims the Ten Commandments from a flaming mountain to the accompaniment of trumpets and in a voice heard by all the people. Exodus 12:31 During the night Pharaoh summoned Moses and Aaron and said, "Up! When Solomons rule is dated per archaeology from 910-870 CE, Shishaks invasion in 871 BCE, year 39 of Solomon, year 5 of Rehoboam, matches radiocarbon-14 dating from Rehov dating Shishaks invasion the very same year in 871 BCE. He didnt stand anywhere, just like Harry Potter hasnt stood anywhere. While at home, and before long, a man came from the furthest end of the town to Moses to tell him that the Egyptians were conspiring his murder, and advised him to depart the town as soon as possible to save his life. Keep moving those goalposts, he has to get here someday right? This was a LEISURELY JOURNEY with women, children, sheep, goats and cattle. Heshbon (Tell Hesban) is no earlier than the 12th century BC. Thutmose IV as a Candidate for the Eldest Son of Amenhotep II. The Priests of Amun were now super sensitive to other religious beliefs and particularly, monotheism. Ramses came along more than a hundred years after the Atenism was suppressed. With the above in mind, I firmly believe end-times prophecy of revelations (mysteries and signs) in the heavens above and the earth beneath will bear witness to the integrity of Gods truth. Why wetlands are so critical for life on Earth, Rest in compost? Ramses II Since an actual generation was nearer 25 years, the most probable date for the Exodus is about 1290 bce. The Aish Rabbi Replies. As the Book of Exodus opens, a new king has risen over Egypt, one concerned that the descendants of Jacob were becoming too numerous (Exodus 1:8-9). Made with clay, wire, and recycled paper, the characters come to life in frame-by-frame motion. The biblical names Pithom, Ramses and Yam Suph (Red Sea or Reed Sea) correspond to the Egyptian place names Pi-Ramesse, Pi-Atum and (Pa-)Tjuf. In this example, Pharaoh's heart is becoming hard on its own apart from any act on the part of God. Many say yes, while others say no. Ramses II became king as a teenager and reigned for 67 years. Arriving in Egypt, Moses and Aaron immediately undertook their mission. Reference: In Bietaks article, the scholarly debate about the archaeological remains and the onomastic data of Wadi Tumilat is more elaborately treated. FREE ebook: Israel: An Archaeological Journey. 1:11 and the pharaoh of the exodus are not the same. The miracles and inflated numbers were to tie the Judahites to the State and to the family God YHW at a time when the very survival of the Judahites was in doubt due to the aggression of the Assyrians, Egyptians and later the Babylonians. It is well worth seeing what he presents. Although there is much debate, most people settle into two camps: They argue for either a 15th-century B.C.E. In Canaan/Israel, the once oppressive Hyksos were, in turn, afflicted by the Hebrews: and resorted to asking Egyptians (who their ancestors despised as weak), for archers as protection against the Hebrew judges and a popular uprising. Eco-friendly burial alternatives, explained. All of World History reveal there were many civilizations thriving in that timeframe. I have heard (read) some of these arguments before and from similarly qualified individuals of various backgrounds. He aspired to defeat the Hittites and control all of Syria, but in the fifth year of his reign Ramses walked into a Hittite trap laid for him at Kadesh, on the Orontes River in Syria. When he was up and about again, he said Exalted You! Is the Biblical Exodus fact or fiction? A clue to the timing of the Exodus which appears to be overlooked is Iron was in use when the Israelites killed King Og By an analogy, the fall of Devil Empire on December 8,1991-Bialoviezha Accord (Yeltci,@Bialorus, and Ukraine PMs) made a coup contra Gorbatchev! Ok then find a single piece of evidence that shows a 2 million strong population making its way around the Sinaiits been thousands of years, still waiting. This is a When Moses completed the appointed time of his Lord, he said to his brother Aaron be my successor in command of my folk; conciliate between them, and do not follow the way of the corrupters, and then departed for the promised appointment. I also believe that the historical writings and books of the Bible, (e.g., the books of Kings and Chronicles), are historical, essential, and highly accurate but, not necessarily divinely inspired, (in the sense of infallibility.) of Bethlehem, of the tribe of Juda, ruled 7 years.Cf. Photo: Courtesy of Manfred Bietak. Not only is the Exodus a dead issue, the enslavement, sojourn and military conquest of Canaan are also dead issues. In the same time, the Pharaoh had previously sent to the provinces of Egypt for a mobilization against the Israeli people, and vast crowds of Egyptian soldiers were gathered and equipped in the capital city. Thus Moses had escaped punishment, but he grew up with a speech impediment thereafter. i should have asked you to tell me the whole truth. until ca. Why did she do this? I could go on and on. No archeological evidence of this Exodus exist in Soviet or Israels archeological sites. The Daughter of Pharaoh Is Bithiah. The testimony of the Galilean Israelite, Josephus, is that he agrees with the Greek reckoning that puts King David, in Jerusalem and building it, in circa 1060 to 1063 B.C.! ); cf. More, December 8 is the FEast of Immaculate Conception.People have a short memory. The Hyksos were able to enter Egypt easily shortly after the Exodus because of the devastation that the 10 plagues caused and the Ipuwer Manuscript describes this time. Websites like this one are actually misleading a lot of people. When Moses asks him to release the Israelites . In this planetary genocide only 8 humans and a wooden boatload of fauna survived. We have not broken your covenant of our own accord, they replied to their Prophet, but we had been compelled to bring with us some jewels of the Egyptians; then we melted these with fire, and that man, Al-Samerie, made up out of this a golden calf that mooinghe said to us that this was the god of Moses! We once liked Kamose as the pharaoh of the Exodus because of his history of attacking the 'Hyksos.'. But this Pharaoh could not have been the ruler at the time of the Exodus! , Judges 11:26 [And Jepthaah inquired] While Israel dwelt in all the cities that are along by the side of the Arnon, 300 years; wherefore did ye not recover them within that time?. The cities mentioned in the exodus story seem to exist in that time, and Ai was inhabited 1200-1050 BCE. The biblical narrative holds up when it is recognized that there is a wide divergence (about 350 years) between the biblical and standard timelines at the time of the Exodus. Adults with imaginary friends are dangerous. Theyd been gone a little too long and things were different. I can only give you my own opinion on the matter, which is that Pharaoh did not drown with his army. I have always been fascinated with the influence of religion on human history and this period was obviously pivotal. Countless millions of facts and artifacts support genuine history. He boasts of defeating them. What the Israelites built. What should archeologist and historians say 3000 years from now? Moses felt fear within himself, but Allah told him that he would overcome just as he cast his stick. It is apparently part of Exodus 10:5-6. By that time Pharaoh Thutmose III had died and his son Amenhotep II assumed the throne. Like Herodotus, Clement lists all sorts of dates that various ancient Greeks have speculated through the centuries on the man called Homer. Manetho thought the Israelite Exodus was a Ramesside event, not Hyksos. He was then a Persian appointed governor of the province of Yehud (Judah). Did the king of Egypt and all his army drown? It really doesnt bother me or diminish my faith either way. This has in no way eliminated an Eleventh Century Exodus; as Abraham Malamat suggested in BAR: Let My People Go and Go and Go. 957 B.C.- Ionia is founded 909 B.C. Read Where Moses Stood for the true facts. Please be respectful of copyright. Thereupon, the Children of Israel were punished by Allah for their lingering: It is forbidden for them to enter it for forty years, during which they will wander in the land; so, Moses, do not feel sorrow about the debauched folk. During those forty years, not one of the entire Israeli nation could get out of the wilderness for any other land, and thus the liberator of Israels Children died in the wilderness of Sinai before accomplishing his desire for reaching the Sacred Land, and so did Aaron. The plan of the complete house is the same as that of the four-room house characteristic of Israelite dwellings during the Iron Age. Bible and Exodus is not a history book but an interpretation of history. after all you were there! This was followed, again, by a 480-year gap between the entry into the Promised Land by Joshua, and the Temple of Solomons dedication. On my Philosopy, i thought the Bible made us understand that Pharoah gave out his chariote and soldiers or Army to go after the israelites (Exodus 14:1ff). Thus you have two archaeological events that coordinate to when we must date the Exodus or at least include as a potential date for the Exodus rather than the popular dates for the Exodus, which lack critical evidence for the Exodus that dating the Exodus at the time of Akhenaten provides. The Levites were split up between these 4 tribes. Robert wrote: Evidence for the Exodus needs to include ALL potential dates. I can agree on that point. Bringing us to 2104/5 BCE as the date the Torah presents as the entire world being covered in water to the level of Mt Ararat. Post-539 B.C., we are to calculate against a 12-month calendar. Likewise Ex. It also casts a light of importance on the double reckoning as well, because to Eratosthenes, the descent of the Heraclidae is a major calculable event in Greek history. The Onomasticon Amenope is a list of categorized words from Egypts Third Intermediate Period. Well said Brother D, see you on that day! (c) Exodus Exodus 1:11 if this points to the Pharaoh of the Ramses dynasty, this would put the Exodus to 1234- 1214B.C. But I think it is clear that something happened and these bits of information point to it . 300 years = 1211 B.C. And Othniel the son of Kenaz died., Clement: Gothoniel [ Othniel]. For example: if the time of the Exodus is pushed back from the 1200 BC to three hundred years before and the narrative is fully verbatim, then should the ruler of Egypt be Fact or fiction? The Greeks who existed before Cyrus I conquering Babylon in circa 539 B.C., reckoned their years upon a 10-month or ca. 1070 B.C. You will see, if you read the 3 articles below, that the Egyptian chronology can be anchored on absolute dates fixed by astronomy and notably the period during which the Exodus took place. was Rathotis (a.k.a., Tutankhamen). Evidence for the Exodus needs to include all potential dates. Any consideration of ancient calendrical systems, must recognize why they were created in the first place, and what they are based upon. The book of Exodus does say that " w hen the king of Egypt was told that the people had fled . This datum would suggest the Exodus has to be AFTER the arrival of the Philistines in Canaan, circa 1174 BC. From the Garden of Eden, Paradise Lost, portrayal; to the portrayal of Moses as a magician who led his tribe out of Egypt where they had been kept as slaves for centuries. In Egyptology, we find that there is a relief that celebrates Raameses victory at Kadesh in 1180 B.C. It is well known that large numbers of people left Egypt upon their defeat. Ramses II also built a second city dedicated to his personal patron, Atum, called Per Atum. Exodus 2:23.. This suggests for me, they are not interested in a search for the truth if that truth does not support their views. A workers house from western Thebes also seems to support a 13th-century Exodus. The old man assured him that he was safe at Midian, and offered him one of his two daughters in marriage on the terms of working for him as a wage earner for ten years. Why? Was He More than an Exodus Hero? Ill be ordering his other books soon. lol. Thus those who take this view are not really taking the text seriously. Imagine the fear and agony of coming face to face with extermination. In the reign of Amenophis, there were ambassadors sent out to those shepherds driven out of the land (of Egypt) by Tethmosis, to the city of Jerusalem, whereby he informed them of his own affairs (Josephus, Against Apion. The Judahite tribes were the half-brothers of Joseph who had thrown him down a well after stripping him of his coat of many colors. But it also combines details from an invasion of Canaan and Transjordan circa 1174 BC or later. Finally, after forty years in the remote regions of Midian, Moses receives his commission from the LORD God to liberate the Hebrews. In Joshua 16:10, 21:21; and Judges 1:29; we find that Gezer was portioned as half-Jewish priests with their families and half-Canaanite. Now YHWH will slay your first-born son.'". What is the matter? addressed Moses the two women. And the Isrealites couldnt just reassimilate seamlessly with their old Canannite cousins. The facts are the positions of stars in the sky seeing by eyes or telescopes; an interpretation of it by Ptolomey or Copernicus is not a fact (physical). Why? The primitive manner in which the culture existed for millennia (polygamy,marketing of slaves and keeping multiple sex slaves etc) and their lack of understanding of even basic natural law clearly reveal the source for the mythology. Thus, adding the reigns of the two Pharaoh Rameses together makes it impossible that either was the Pharaoh of the Exodus. Primitive nomadic ethnocentric ignorant tribal concepts are the basis for the entire mythology. Im sorry you invested you life in nonsense. Volunteer magicians came from all over Egypt to the Pharaoh, who accommodated them in his royal palaces and promised to bestow special favors upon them if they won the day. The Egyptians lived in peace with the Children of Israel for many centuries following, and traces in Quran indicate that Josephs calling to worship Allah gained considerable followers among the heathen nation, initially because Josephs gift in exegetics had saved the nation of Egypt from a disastrous famine. This example we see again with the Hellenization of the region and the influence of the Greek language over 1,000 years later. In Exodus 7, Pharaoh is responding to signs that God is performing through Moses. Josephus uses the reckoning of the familiar Greek calendar (of his Roman audiences) to state that Solomon built the Temple 592 years after the Hebrew Exodus, before switching gears and reverting to the Jewish calendar of reckoning again. 1512 1511 B.C. It certainly is exciting when the archaeological record matches with the biblical accountas with the examples described here. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/chariot-wheels-found-bottom-red-sea/. So many of the monuments, the products of the Egyptian state were cut of stone. 3. It came to pass that a certain Pharaoh saw in a dream a great fire originating in the land of Jerusalem and sweeping over all the land of Egypt, destroying it all except the areas inhabited by the Israeli people. The semites in that picture were arrested for aiding foreign invaders. A history of enslavement is likely to be true. They noted the appearance of the following names: (1) Philistines, (2) Rameses, (3) Pithom, (4) Edom, (5) Seir, (6) Arad, (7) Heshbon, (8) Bozrah, (9) Ai, (10) Hazor. He associated the Exodus with the Expulsion of the Hyksos by Pharaoh Ahmose I, founder of the 18th Dynasty, circa 1550/1540 BC. The baby, whose Allah has cast over him a Love of His, was taken to the Pharaohs wife, who, being childless, ordered the Pharaoh not to kill him; that he might benefits us; or we might adopt him as a son, and named him Mu-Sa , which means son of water. The Messianic Age was envisioned by Jeremiah as beginning with the fall of Babylon, after 70 years of Exile. He is the Lord of the East and the West and what is in between. The Egyptian origin of the story is also emphasized by the name of Moses. The Book of Exodus says that his name is derived from the Hebrew verb moshe, which means to draw out. However, mose or moses is also a very common Egyptian patronymic, as in Tutmoses, meaning son of Tut.. After the expulsion of the Hyksos and Israelites from Avaris the Israelites became the Shasu-YHW (wanderers of YHW) in the Trans Jordan for 300 years 1535-1235. Exodus 1:11 records that the sons of Israel "built for pharaoh store-cities, Pithom and Raamses." I thought recent underwater research had located suspect chariots from the exodus abandoned at what would have been a crossing point; could not wood samples of this be used to determine a carbon date for the wood used in construction (assuming that it is not buried extremely deep) in the Red Sea? This is nonsense. Thereupon Allah descended upon the Egyptians His Punishment, which made them suffer from a number of afflictions and hardships, including drought, lack of crops, the infesting of frogs, locusts, and lice. During that time, the Egyptians returned to their policy of killing the newborn Israeli males and enslaving the females. That is to say they are a Christian Fundamentalist Biased organization. . When anger had become dormant within Moses, he took the Tablets, which in its copy is found a Guidance and Bless for those who fearing their Lord. After the Children of Israel settled down at the right side of Al-Tour, Allah promised Moses an appointment after thirty nights, which should be spent in worship of Him, but as Moses went to the appointed place a little earlier than agreed, Allah ordered him to complete an additional ten nights of worship. Its still lies, Im sorry you couldnt figure that out, but as you believe nonsense you seem easily lead and not a critical thinker. A Kadesh battle in 1180 B.C. Your comments here beg the basic question: Was Jesus the Son of God who was crucified, died and buried and was resurrected to life to pay the sin debt (past, present, future) for all who believe in Him and who will be given eternal life with the triune God in the new Heaven on the new Earth? Egyptologists do NOT acknowledge the exodus as a real event. That occurred shortly after H. Potock has written his unsubstantiated Jews of Silence, about the loss and assimilation of the Russian Jews. Does the Merneptah Stele Contain the First Mention of Israel? https://www.haaretz.com/jewish/were-jews-ever-really-slaves-in-egypt-1.5208519. We KNOW for example the pyramids at GIZA were centuries old in 2104/5 BCE. or 13th-century B.C.E. Againmaybe or maybe not. Pharoah and Red Sea. Occams razor, the motivation for cmposing these stories is all too clear. However, while this evidence certainly adds weight to the historical accuracy of elements of the biblical account, it cant be used to prove that every detail of the Exodus story in the Bible is true. what happened in the end of submergence; madden 23 franchise deep dive; Sign Up. On the other hand, there are ample records of Semitic immigrant workers in Egypt, who may have drifted back to Syria-Canaan in the 13th century for a variety of reasonsincluding, perhaps, Ramses harsh policies of conscripting labor. Jews were free to come and go as they pleased and any exodus represented a net loss of the Jewish population as they left in small groups to assimilate with the Canaanites. The answer is pretty obvious he abandoned the gods because he saw that the Israelites god was more powerful than Egypts gods so he started worshiping a god he could both feel and see (the sun) like the Israelite GOD YHWH. Therefore, the language of Moses and of the Hyksos was a separation of distinctions or dialect of the same general mother tongue. Thats not helpful. According to Herodotus, by his era, the Greek calendar became reckoned as 12 months of 30 days, with every other year being given an extra inter-calculated month of 30 days Year 1 being 360 days, and Year 2 being 390 days, and then repeating itself thereafter (Herodotus, Histories, 1.33). I don;t think the former city would be named before a Ramses became pharaoh.. Pi Atum seemingly was named for Aten, the heretical god. When does spring start? Reference to Zoan (Tanis?) The Exodus happened in one way or another, and our lawsand our entire purpose for beingare based on it. A fictionor fact is a false dilemma. The Judahite tribes did NOT go to Sinai peninsula. The biblical story of the Israelites' Descent and Exodus speaks about important events that took place in Egypt, so we should expect to find records of these events in Egyptian sources - the seven years of famine predicted by Joseph, the arrival of his father Jacob with his Hebrew family from Canaan, the great plagues of Moses, the death of Egypt's first born, including the Pharaoh's . The result of this communication forges an alliance between the Rephaims and Philistines with Egypt, against the local Israeli Hebrew population. Majority of Jews from this 1st Exodus from the Soviet Union settled in Israel. Would you use the DaVinci Code to prove the events in Humpty Dumpty took place? If Amenhotep II was the Pharaoh of the Exodus according to the above correlations, and he died at that time, then we should identify him as Amenhotep IIA and connect him with the Elephantine and Amada stelae of Year 3. Moses knew every pasture and well in Midian having lived there as a sheep herder for Jethro for over 10 years. 23 And the Egyptians chased after them all Pharaoh's horses, chariots, and horsemen and followed them into the sea. So please, do not insult people when they are BANG ON with historical and archaeological evidence that proves beyond doubt that Exodus is nothing more than an exciting but fantasy story involving the desire of enslaved peoples to be free. This same victory is recorded in Judges 13:1, which the biblical record of successions tells us, is 331 years AFTER THE EXODUS. Thereupon Moses undertook watering the womens animals, and they thanked him and left for their home. Unauthorized use is prohibited. He was very proud of his foolishness, and was an anti-intellectual. Dated to c. 1219 B.C.E., the Merneptah Stele is the earliest extrabiblical record of a people group called Israel. Perhaps the real event behind the Bibles Exodus story was the Hyksos expulsion? nishigandha wad education; dylan michael edmonds - If one does not see in it a hidden hand he/she is blind knowing the global horror threat of nuclear war in Cold War. This is what happened to Nebuchadnezzar in Daniel 4:30-37. The Koran is not a good witness to Biblical narratives. Because it was during the reign of Merneptah, circa same date, that the title was adopted. World history reveal there were many civilizations thriving in that timeframe ramses came along more than a hundred after... Origin of the complete house is the FEast of Immaculate Conception.People have short... Again, he said Exalted you told that the title was adopted any of. 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