January 14, 2008 05:00 AM. (implication: she deserves to be shunned and humiliated). 144 views, 5 likes, 6 loves, 13 comments, 0 shares, Facebook Watch Videos from Austin New Church: ANC 02-26-2023 Sunday Live Service In the Nicene Creed, Christians declare our belief in the four key attributes of the church when we say, [We believe] in one, holy, catholic. But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner not even to eat with such a person. LehrenDotCom. $99.99 + $18.10 shipping. Denying that homosexuality is a sin is a form of self-justification! Sooner or later they start excluding their own, throwing those members they perceive to be recalcitrant over the wall to the wolves below. Did Jesus condemn homosexualituy? If you dont know where get a commentary or a Bible thst has an index of where versus are. Is that a strict standard? THE definition of Christian marriage is in the Bible, beginning in Genesis. If I am wrong on this issue, I am practicing a form of self-justification and teaching self-justification. Yours is the only comment on this blog that makes any sense to me. When, in your mind, must a leader be called out for heresy or false doctrine? Eternally wrong. Is a JH an elder? JM: Jason Morriss, primary teaching pastor and elder at ANC, employed by the Free Methodist Church to serve at ANC since 2013, previously of Joel Osteens Lakewood Church in Houston 2701 S Lamar Blvd Austin, TX 78704. you dont get to decide what sin is, whether public or private. Austin New Church is located in Austin, Texas. ANC: Austin New Church, Hatmakers church in Austin Matthew 10:34-39 NKJV. These are conversations for Christians about Christian doctrine, also. I do not support condescension, intentional divisiveness or mean spirited attacks. Do you not judge those who are inside? But, unless you are without sin, who are any of us to be casting stones at a fellow sojourner in Christ? I know a guy with a Phd from a very conservative seminary who loves Jesus with all his heart, but he doesnt believe the earth was created in six days. People often say things are facts based only on their opinions and interpretations but saying theyre absolute eternal truths? And I dont know anyone who doesnt love a little Righteous Anger. This is a really big deal to members of the Seventh Day Adventist Church. Of course, most us common folk dont have Jens email [or Rob Bells, or others], but I appreciate the way you make yourself accessible via social media. Austin New Church 141 viewsStreamed 3 days ago 1:15:21 ANC 01-22-2023 Sunday Live Service Austin New Church 192 views Streamed 10 days ago 1:06:19 ANC 01-15-2023 Sunday Live Service Austin New. Stop posting if you wish to avoid correction or unfounded hatred. I am with Mike. Maybe he chased them with a whip in love, perhaps? Christians normally reserve the word heresy for serious doctrinal error that strikes at core doctrines of the faith, doctrines considered foundational like Trinity etc. We should know by now what Gods word is. Youre right-I have to say that it is God saying it-its all over the Bible- We see thru a glass darkly, weve all got mud in our eyes.that only Jesus can remove. Or are you making the point that its ok to be harsh because of Jesus example at the temple? Of course not! He just hates sin. You are mischaracterizing the way orthodox believers view Jen. Mike Frost , the author of this article, has attested to the fact that he believes homosexual practice is sin as well. Perhaps it is partly because you spend your Christian celebrity capital to gripe about online comments. "Meets at Jackies. The gospel is the gospel. The gospel of Jesus is the core of our faith. People forget about Jesus chasing people with a whip. Ireland, 2022, 1h 34min, DCP, In Irish Gaelic and English with English subtitles. In Sunday School, we dont really teach our kids about all the crazy stuff that happened in the Old Testament. I would also ask, why do we tolerate certain sins in ourselves and others? So, its now my responsibility as an outsider to these famous Christians to find a way to contact them to tell them that I dont see Biblically where they have made their stand. 1,832 were here. Jesus didnt waver one millimeter from the Truths he spoke and nor should Christians who profess to follow Him. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. Matthew 18:15 seems the answer to me. Whats funny to me is, Christians like to hold up Jews as the ultimate legalists, but Ive been getting to know some Jews and theyre not, at all. And maybe that is good. PromotingSuppressing.Isolatin But those who are outside God judges. A CHURCH WHERE EVERYONE BELONGS. There was ample time before their opinions were made public to meet with mentors and leaders to understand that what they say may not be well received. Deli studied . In like fashion, conservatives are trying to reason from Scripture why homosexual sex (as well as any sex outside of marriage, including LOOKING at another person with lust in your heart) is damnable sin but thanks be to God we are SAVED in CHRIST from it! How do you think that friend of mine justifies his belief? What you arent wanting to hear is a calm, sincere appeal to Biblical truths. I do. So many people do want to be christians because so ofter christians are brutal to one another. His Awareness Please read Chapter 33 of the esteemed Hebraist Joel Hoffmans The Bible Doesnt Say That, on Homosexuality. Because if it is sin, the only justification we are allowed as believers to practice is repentance and forgiveness through the cross and grace of Jesus. Im not fucking with anyone, man. Holly, let me guess: Youre heterosexual and married or in a relationship with a manmaybe you have kids. Anyone who writes a damning or imperious or condescending comment on their blog is only showing they have no such concern for the person Approach them directly; raise your concerns respectfully; where appropriate and reasonable, invite a third party into the discussion. I cant imagine how this approach would lead a person down the wrong path. For the gossip its the same. Be assured that you were persecuted for all the right reasons and God had control of the outcome! I have been in the conservative church for over half a century, and Im getting to the point where I feel that if the conservative church wants to exclude me, then so be it. I cant speak for all of Jens critics, but yes, a person with a platform that reaches millions of souls is important and it matters that they are presenting the right Gospel without wavering, and naturally people, myself, included, believe and want this Gospel to be clearly proclaimed no matter the cost. Never about homosexuality. Does shaming those who speak up for the vulnerable bring people to the Loving and Forgiving God? Get the bloodlust out of your system, people. only God can judge. My faith in God is deep. Most respectful comments disagreeing with her stance are deleted. These reflect ACTIONS of FAITH. Hey, Im not saying conservative evangelicalism is as bad as Jonestown, but I do know this: once the pack starts circling an identified victim theres very little stopping it. Somewhat ironic, and perhaps some of the fellow congregants should have been listening more closely. As someone mentioned earlier, child sexual abuse is not specifically mentioned in the Bible. At the very least she deserves to be treated with dignity and respect. JM reports that membership at ANC has decreased by approximately 40% in four months. Let them be the fire and one day, there will be nothing left to burn. 1:02. This wealthy guy asks Jesus how he can gain eternal life. The person is not called out publically, they are called in in love. But its only Johns account that mentions the whip in 2:15. i agree completely. We ought to love in truth and tell the truth in love. Its Biblical. Youre right, Spencer, in my opinion. It will deepen our sympathies: it unlocks our compassion because it sees the whole of humankind sharing in a common unfolding story. My study of the scriptures has helped me come to the conclusion that drinking alcohol is not sin if in moderation. I understand your pain. Or at least that is true for many. Wow, thanks for that. It is never correct to say any sin is okay. It was not like that from the beginning. And in any case expressing a mistaken idea isnt a sin. Frank, I have great difficulty taking seriously anything said by someone who refers to an eternal truth from the Bible. I can ALSO say she is an exceptional follower of Jesus who has given her life in service of the. The C-List celebrity world you pursued comes with its pluses and minuses. But dont you see that disagreement doesnt immediately mean hate? Youre at church to get help for any kind of sin not just this one, not to have it smiled upon so that no one will be offended. Ancient covenants were achieved when both parties passed through the blood of severed animals on either side. The Hatmakers' congregation, Austin New Church, ultimately transferred from the Free Methodist Church, an evangelical denomination, to the United Methodist Church. He also said marriage was between a man and a woman only. If your motivation really is loving correction, its my view that that can only happen fully and effectively in relationship. Yet, I am still saved. I had a woman tell me just today that she prayed and prayed and God did not take away her lesbianism. It is one of my favorite stories. Prior to October of 2016 traditional Christian marriage was the Hatmakers official position. Otherwise there is need for concern. Yes, Ryan, that is Gods plan. Even if you hate me for it. They want to use their platform and were the bad guys if we dont disagree in a quiet, loving manner. Im not saying we should ignore theology that seems to be pushing the boundaries of orthodoxy, but it seems there should be a more gentle attitude when engaging or pushing back on beliefs which concern us. Was the author referencing Jen as a wounded wolf? The building was originally Faith United Methodist Church since 1968 and in January of . Yet, I find myself sobbing in my back yard as I listen, hoping no one hears . That seems nonsensical. You just made me so happy. Jesus didnt say a lot of things. Im simply asking you to justify the parts of the Bible you either reinterpret or ignore altogether. State desire to remain in a tension on the issue, however, no opposing historical views are presented, and most if not all elders holding to traditional views have left ANC since the interview. We tell local Austin news & weather stories, and we do what we do to make Austin, Round Rock, Georgetown, Dripping Springs, Bastrop and the rest of Central Texas a better place to live. She also said she attempted suicide. That doesnt mean that it isnt a sin when you take the entire Bible into consideration. Praise His holy, beautiful name. TAKE INITIATIVE. Tuesday. When a practicing homosexual hears that his sin is not actually a sin, it keeps that practicing homosexual from repentance, forgiveness, and freedom found in the grace of Yeshua. About how a man and his wife, who is a man and woman, join together and become one flesh in a marriage covenant. We must do better. It is such a shame that a church that meant so much to so many can be destroyed so easily by arrogance. That includes naming the ones doing the teaching. Bear one anothers burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. Jesus experienced that. Jesus calls us to speak the Truth in LOVE (not in bloodthirsty fury). But if a person is claiming to be a Christian but keeps insisting that any sins pointed out in the Bible are not sin, and after being shown time and again that theyre wrong, then there does come a time when it says in the Bible Do not even eat with such a person. But since when have Christian leaders proven to have a thoughtful handle on what is essential and what is secondary in theology, and what is truly peripheral? Hello! What does he know? Mike, 2:24. One form is that we are righteous and can get to heaven through out good deeds. Do you keep the Sabbath holy? I am never for calling names but when false teachings arise they must be dealt with. ), I did this once with Jared WIlson when he blog-quoted Doug Wilson on dominance and submission in the marriage bed. Its often very ugly. Thanks evangelical Christianity. But with grace and love and patience and forbearance and all the fruit of the spirit all is the arsenal of the believer. This is the bottom line: Jen Hatmaker and her husband said that they had a revelation from God after much prayer that basically the story of Adam and Eve and the pattern of marriage also pertains to homosexual marriage! Of course homosexuality us wrong-its everywhere in the Bible. Shes not a heretic. Let no man divide what God has put together., 7 The proud religious law-keepers said to Jesus, Then why did the Law of Moses allow a man to divorce his wife if he put it down in writing and gave it to her? 8 Jesus said to them, Because of your hard hearts Moses allowed you to divorce your wives. I dont know the answer, but Jesus was public in his condemnation plenty of times too. When superstar Christians promote that agenda, in many peoples minds, it just increases the tendency towards this syncretism and there is genuine concern. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. Frost presumed some sort of good will in the likes of Hatmakers condemners. Does the pushing some people out of Gods Grace, shaming especially the most historically vulnerable, BRING people to faith, into a relationship with the Loving God? Even if the person you have concerns about isnt known to you personally (a well-known identity like Jen, for example), a private message or email is a far more respectful (and therefore, more effective) means of exchanging views. Theres no way to prove everything that was actually said. My mind was changed BECAUSE of my seriousness of the Word, not in spite of it. Not to slam the person personally. Communion Service and Homeless Community Grillout (Music by Miranda Dodson. Polygamy was still occurring in the New Testament wealthy Jews. Thanks for sharing Tara. Yours just ignoring the facts otherwise. Sin must be known as it is. Jesus did say Burn thine enemies to the ground when they disagree with you. Would you kick him out of your church because he doesnt believe that part of the Bible? He told the prostitute to sin no more. This is not about Trump. Focus on immaterial things These arguments always boil down to the same thing moving the fence, trying to let some sins be okay and castigating any Christian who holds to orthodoxy. In your pursuit of eternal life, have you sold all your possessions and given them to the poor and if not, how do you justify that? Brian Austin Green Amid Split From Megan Fox Celebrates Father's Day With His Sons. Lets all do our best to avoid generalities. Lets focus on how the devil is using each and everyone of us in order to win good people over to his side. Constricting.Simulating.Seekin It sounds familiar because it is. 9 And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sex sins, and marries another, is guilty of sex sins in marriage. I know lots of sincere believers who practice infant baptism. Can core beliefs and clear tenets of faith survive for very long in the same room as life and health and love? 19:12). This is not about a personal sin or a personal doubt, this is about her clear rejection of an eternal truth. Whether you're an old member or visiting for the first time we want you to know you that ALL are welcome at the Congregational Church of Austin. That was supposed to say. When you read Romans 1 and 2 together intelligently as one argument, you see that his whole point is that the people who are judging others are the ones in sin. New Releases THE QUIET GIRL. focusing on OUR being : And when I say hugs, I mean THE KIND A MAMA GIVES HER BELOVED KID." 5/15/22 ANC 5-15-2022 Sunday Live Service ANC 5-15-2022 Sunday Live Service 5/8/22 . What has happened to jen is not great! I read the wounded wolves article and was disturbed by it as well. both the shelter and the solitude of silence with the eloquence of Colm Bairad's gently captivating Irish . Humanitarian. Sin is sin is sin. Yes the 2nd chapter of Genesis is poetry. What comes to mind is what God said when his people were sacrificing their children to Baal and Moloch: It never even entered my mind though He never gave the explicit command in the Law, Thou shall not sacrifice your children, we know its wrong. BE GENEROUS. At the very least she deserves to be treated with dignity and respect. So, what does healthy religion look like? If Jen Hatmakers beliefs prevent one teen from committing suicide because they are gay then maybe all this public scrutiny is worth it. Because this teacher is teaching self-justification for sin rather than justification through repentance and the cross. I will simply READ MY BIBLE. Truth is truth, however, and it is offensive. It is neither your job nor your ability to call out someone elses sin. I dont know what people are saying about this woman and I dont have a clue as to who she is, I couldnt care any less than I do right now. And then there are the oft-cited examples of Pauls implicit endorsement of slavery and the reduced role/view of women. When I asked Jen if she would private message me so I could respond privately about my concerns on same sex marriage, she never did. No opposing historical views included. Yeah I wonder that too about the changing of the mind. Thats why you lost another Millenial. Thats down to the individual I guess if they can handle it without wanting to be with that person romantically. I cant see where any belief that urges parents to throw out their kids or that causes people to commit suicide can possibly be bearing anything other than rotten fruit. Thats why you go first alone, then take a witness or two and finally tell the church. On her Instagram page, Hatmaker posted touching photos from Austin Pride Week, with the caption: "My beloved little church went downtown to the #AustinPrideParade and gave out Free Mom Hugs, Free Dad Hugs, Free Grana Hugs, and Free Pastor Hugs like it was our paying jobs. 16 But if he does not listen, take one or two others with you, so that at the testimony of two or three witnesses every matter may be established. When Jen Hatmaker wrote a raw and heartfelt blog about the pain shes been through over recent attacks and posted it on Good Friday, she was taken to task for daring to identify her pain with that of Christs. So where does same-sex marriage fall on this? Is one sin worse than another? Maybe try and figure out where your love went. At what point, in your thinking, does the church get involved? He chased people out with a whip and turned over the tables of the money changers. Since when did social media become the first step to hold someone accountable. LOCATION | The 04 Center 2701 S Lamar Blvd, Austin, TX 78704 . For I have come to set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a mans enemies will be those of his own household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. Jesus condemns every expression of sex outside of marriage given what the word porneia means in both Biblical and non-Biblical sources. Just my two cents. He was talking about divorce, and the only reason he was talking about it in the first place was because the religious leaders were trying to fuck with him JUST LIKE THEY ARE DOING TO JEN HATMAKER. However, we should do so with respect and love to those who are in error. But we should not bend Gods word with our own to meet the secular world. Only confirmation bias and not cultural context could bring you to a 1st century Jewish Rabbi quoting poetry from the Hebrew scripture meaning anything about monogamous, consensual, same-sex relationships. Your firmly held religious beliefs are personal. And of COURSE he would use the same language they were using. Stories of Jesus sharing love, community, and personal connection (even when he rebuked) fill the rest of the Gospels. Im so sorry you were harassed and abused. Wednesday. According to a source that told the U.S . The bible says that if your brother (or sister) has wronged you, you should talk to them first. And maybe even a little doctrinaire? Maybe. JM has stated from the pulpit that JH is his boss. Im so sick of the whole Christian hippie thing. The protectors of orthodoxy appear to have drawn a bead on her as they did on Rachel Held Evans, Rob Bell and Brian McLaren before her. Im hearing some noted preachers, and teachers of preaching, nervously proclaiming that the sermon is safe from the chatbot. When church leaders dont mind resembling the bad guys in the Gospels we have a problem. I Corinthians 5:10-13 NKJV We see it most clearly in closed communities like Scientology, or in cults like Jonestown or the Branch Davidians, or among fundamentalist churches like Westboro Baptist. Maybe thats an indication for me to say that they are the kind of disciples I want to be. That is the way it is handled in our church. I Corinthians 5:11-13 NKJV How bad does it have to get? 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